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 Post subject: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Location: Phil Vas, Canada
12th Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA

We are pleased to be hosting the Rottweiler Club of Canada's 2012 Ontario Regional Sieger Show and ZtP. This is our 13th annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario.

This event is being held at the Country Heritage Park, nestled in the shadow of the Niagara Escarpment south of Highway 401, on Tremaine Road west of Milton, Ontario.

The show will be officiated by Werner Walter, Head Judge of the ADRK (Germany).

Our show will commence on Saturday with Puppy classes through to Youth classes and a Judge�??s dinner on Saturday evening. Adult classes including ZtP testing will run on Sunday
Primary Contact:
Penny Costanzo
rccsiegershow@hotmail.com
416-989-4359
Location:
COUNTRY HERITAGE PARK, 8560 TREMAINE ROAD
Milton, Ontario (Canada)
Registration:
Registration for all activities closes on Friday, August 24, 2012.

No registrations will be accepted past midnight in the Eastern U.S.A. timezone

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:00 am 
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Location: Lansdale PA
Phil,

Is this show allowing docked tails?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:21 am 
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Steven....didn't your club have to find a replacement judge awhile back (after initially scheduling Werner Walter) when you found out Walter said he would not judge docked dogs?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:24 pm 
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Location: Phil Vas, Canada
In Canada we have a duel standard. For our show we expect the judging to be for both, tailed or docked. But we will ask the judge for clarification on this.


Thank You
Phil Vas

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:02 am 
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Location: Lansdale PA
Just so everyone is on the same page this is the response we received when Werner was asked about judging the docked dog.


From: "Walter.vom-Kressbach@t-online.de" <Walter.vom-Kressbach@t-online.de>
To: Samantha Canuso
Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 2:31:00 PM
Subject: Re: NEED URGENT REPLY

Hello Samantha

You wanted a German judge and I judge according to the FCI standard. I will disqualify all dogs that do not conform with the FCI rules.
Regards
Werner Walter

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Location: Gretchen Caldwell, Massachusetts
The initial post does not list the actual dates of the show. Entries open on Aug 24th, but when is the show?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:56 pm 
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Location: Andy Furman , New York
Saturday, September 8, 2012 at 8:30am until Sunday, September 9, 2012 at 5:00pm :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:04 pm 
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Location: Phil Vas, Canada
Saturday, September 8, 2012 at 8:30am until Sunday, September 9, 2012 at 5:00pm
thank you for posting the dates

Samatha yes i see what he is saying but with fci its also allowed for the judge to use his or her descretion on the contry that he or she is juging in
we have a duble standerd in canada for tails and non tales we are wating on his responce to this

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Location: John Addoms, Hawaii
I must confess I'm having a hard time grasping the whole "docked tail" rules. The german judge will dismiss docked dogs, USRC will soon forbid docked dogs (all in the name of FCI). Yet the IFR regulations state for the world shows:

Dogs with docked tails are to be admitted in accordance with the legal regulations of their home countries and those of the country where the show takes place. The judging of docked and undocked dogs must be done without any discrimination and solely in accordance with the valid FCI - breed standard.

Can anybody explain the apparent inconsistencies?

Thanks, John

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:25 am 
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Location: Dirk Vandecasteele
addoms wrote:
I must confess I'm having a hard time grasping the whole "docked tail" rules. The german judge will dismiss docked dogs, USRC will soon forbid docked dogs (all in the name of FCI). Yet the IFR regulations state for the world shows:

Dogs with docked tails are to be admitted in accordance with the legal regulations of their home countries and those of the country where the show takes place. The judging of docked and undocked dogs must be done without any discrimination and solely in accordance with the valid FCI - breed standard.

Can anybody explain the apparent inconsistencies?

Thanks, John


My answer has nothing to do with the CC show nor with mr. W. Walter's decision or views and concerns only the so said inconsistencies in the FCI show regulations.

I don't see an inconsistency.

Docked and non docked dogs should be judged without discrimination and solely in accordance with the FCI-breed standard : this means that when the standard allows both, there should be no discrimination and both should be judged aside each other but if the standard does not allow both : judging should also then be solely in accordance with the standard and thus only docked or non docked dogs can be judged.

If a standard demands docking while the law forbids docking and/or participation of docked dogs, docked dogs cannot be admitted / judged. If a standard demands docking and the law does not forbid it, docked dogs can be entered. However, even if they can be entered while docked, judging must be solely according to the FCI breedstandard.

Just my opinion on the content of the showregulation of course.

Dirk.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Location: Phil Vas, Canada
This is how i read it my self we sent our judge an email and are awating on his responce

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Location: Leslie Fried, NJ
John Addoms: USRC will soon forbid docked dogs (all in the name of FCI”)

Correction, this has nothing to do with the FCI, this question is in debate because of USRC’s membership in the IFR and because they adopted the FCI STANDARD for 2000. See more below

So to be clear in understanding the post from Dirk Vandecasteele . And in this case, the county does still allow for legal docking.

If the club is using the FCI standard of 1996 that allowed for the docked dog The FCI standard of 1996 - Tail: Docked at the first or second joint. In those countries where docking is forbidden by law, the tail may be left in its natural state.

Or if the country’s valid kennel club standard allows docking, then the dogs will be judged aside each other without prejudice

However, if the club’s valid standard is only that of the FCI from 2000 then the judge cannot allow this dog to be judged because it does not follow the standard for that club.
The FCI standard of 2000 - TAIL: In natural condition, level in extension of the upper line; at ease may be hanging.

So here is the confusion, the county legally allows the dog to be docked, but to judge this dog at a USRC event would be in violation of the club’s own valid standard.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:39 am 
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Location: Leslie Fried, NJ
Can someone please clarify if my interpretation of how this works is correct? Or at least give an opinion?

Am I missing something and the issue of showing a docked dog when the club uses the FCI 2000 standard is not a problem for judges as we go forward?

Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:57 am 
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Location: Geri Lordi
Leslie, you are correct, but this is not a USRC event, it is an RCC Event :) Hence allowing both Docked and Tailed as in Canada they can be tailed or docked.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Location: Leslie Fried, NJ
Yes, I understand it this way as well, but was trying to get clarification and confirm if in my scenario, if the standard is one that does not allow for a docked dog what happens

Because you have your own "standard" that allows for docked dogs, you will be able to have judge officiate both, good for you and all the dogs! Wish I could come!

It will be a great event I'm sure.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Location: Dana McMahan (Williams), California
Leslie,
This is the same situation happening in AKC. The standard does not allow for a tailed dog, but it also doesn't disallow it. I've checked the FCI standard.

"Tail: In natural condition, level in extension of the upper line; at ease may be hanging."

"Faults:
Tail: Set on too high or too low."

"Eliminating Faults:
Tail: Kink tail, ring tail, with strong lateral deviation"

No where can I find a statement that docked dogs are not allowed to be shown or must be disqualified. Its the same predicament in AKC, it doesn't specifically disallow a tailed dog and therefore several have been shown successfully. There is no reason per the standard above that a docked dog can not be shown under the current FCI standard unless I'm missing something...?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:36 pm 
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Look to the country of origin, in this case the ADRK for the FCI standard. The reason there is nothing in their standard is simple, they cannot dock and there really is no reason to put a clarification for something that is not allowed in their country.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Annual German Style Sieger Show in Ontario, CANADA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:36 pm
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Location: Phil Vas, Canada
Well Dirk is correct in what he stated . We just got the reply from Mr. Werner Walter today. He is judging based on our breed standard which allows docked and non-docked rottweilers. Hope this clarifies things for everyone and hope to see you at our 2012 show.

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